Well, the faceless bureaucrats (and agents of NGOs) who constitute the Biden Adminstration are taking as many last shots at natural gas as they possivly can in the three weeks left of their corrupt rule, as this story from the Washington Free Beacon reveals:
The DOE has implemented poor solutions for a non existent problem. The supposed problem exists only in the mind of the libtards and climatocatastrophists. But watch, there will be no crisis and the leftists will claim their actions are the reason why. . . . Except there never was a crisis or impending climate change.
This totally absurd movement supported by a puppet government agency will get a realism kick in the ass January 21. Good riddance to the bad rubbish that gets terminated.
The instant on demand systems of gas water heaters have been around for decades. My favorite was the Aquastar/Bosch model with NO ELECTRIC POWER REQUIRED. It had a hydroactivated piezo electric igniter. It's no longer made.
The new electronic systems like that by Navian that I had to do as a replacement cost 2x as much and must be constantly hooked to grid power to function. Monitoring systems are incorporated for wireless monitoring through smart meters.
I don't complain too much as I figure the savings take 8 to 10 years for the unit but that can be taken up by annual maintenance unless you know how to do it and when it was installed had the isolation valves installed with the appropriate connectors. Whole process takes about 1-1/2 hours a year and is similar in complexity to draining a regular gas or electric water heater tank which everyone does annually too. Right? That is a major reason those tank heaters go bad, not to mention they forgot to include exit flue gas dampers and so many, many homes with gas heaters have a 4 to 5 inch diameter hole in their roof constantly leaking conditioned air to the outside.
Mr Shepstone, Thomas, I love you! As soon as I read your headline in my email I knew here is a man who understands! A man with a heart who actually cares! I'm in England, yet this perfect description of those callously uncaring, selfish betrayers of the Labour Party over here who are now running our government. Labour used to be the party that cared for the old, disabled and poor. Now the evil man who allowed Jimmy Savile freedom to live a life of child molestation and takes heating allowances away from disabled poor people is our Labour Prime Minister. He, the man on record for stating he prefers the WEF in Davos to his own country's parliament in Westminster may have given us some insight into these nasty spiteful leaders of today. For the trend surely is to grind their heel in the faces of the poor while living it up with their elite cronies.
Yes indeed. I wondered if they were just stupid, but no, they live one way while expecting people to put up with the pain of poverty while they practise egregiously immoral indulgences. The torture of the innocent young children has to stop. We need to stand up against it.
What’s missing from the Biden administration ruling?? The actual carbon content of the generated electrons coming to the residence (or building) isn’t accounted for.
Most coal and natural gas thermal plants that generate electricity are less than 40% efficient. So why is this rule banishing certain gas-fired hot water heaters that are much more efficient thermal plants?
Because electric tankless water heaters don't work, and don't take two showers with a heat pump water heater, they only can make enough hot water for one short cool one.
If that is so, and in most cases it is not, it still means such a heater is an economic and worthwhile solution for an elderly couple or a disabled person who does not require gallons of hot running water at one go.
Ahhh, you won't get an argument about point of use from me. But they are not very popular in the USA. I was talking about the whole house version that is intended to do the same thing as the whole house gas version. They just don't have enough wattage to meet the job and if they did it would be prohibitive. Even with the gas ones, the US gas distribution companies do not like them because of the gas demand. So some gas utilities won't let you install them.
I have a plain ol tank gas water heater, it's all the builder would put in. BUT I have a 2 psi gas service with a 1 inch main the length of the house. If I want a tankless, I have the gas to run it.
I had the main line go years ago after 45 years in the ground. Had the reroute done in 1-1/4. Never a problem. The issue (as a former realtor) is what subdivisions installed sometimes bare minimum. Then when folks try and get the permit....denied..
Rinnai makes condensing and non-condensing tankless water heaters. I find it hard to believe they would construct a new factory that makes only non-condensing units. Per online search condensing and non-condensing are approximately the same price so why not buy condensing and save money. I have a Rinnai condensing unit hanging off the wall of my garage. Venting is more straight forward because the exhaust gas is cool. I spend less than $10/month for hot water.
In August 1990 I was looking at Residential Heating Fuel Cost Comparison for one milion btus of heat.
Natural gas even with an old furnace with 60% standard efficiency $9.16 at 86% $6.39
Electricity $18.83 to $26.37
It couldn't even beat propane
at .60 a gallon to $1.05 a gallon
60% standard was $10.80 to $18.90
At a 86% efficiency we had $7.53 at a low to $13.19 as a high.
I really dislike this insanity by our WEF and CFR compromised politicos.
Seemingly always searching for a solution to a problem they haven’t found yet. Beyond madness 🤬
The DOE has implemented poor solutions for a non existent problem. The supposed problem exists only in the mind of the libtards and climatocatastrophists. But watch, there will be no crisis and the leftists will claim their actions are the reason why. . . . Except there never was a crisis or impending climate change.
This totally absurd movement supported by a puppet government agency will get a realism kick in the ass January 21. Good riddance to the bad rubbish that gets terminated.
The instant on demand systems of gas water heaters have been around for decades. My favorite was the Aquastar/Bosch model with NO ELECTRIC POWER REQUIRED. It had a hydroactivated piezo electric igniter. It's no longer made.
The new electronic systems like that by Navian that I had to do as a replacement cost 2x as much and must be constantly hooked to grid power to function. Monitoring systems are incorporated for wireless monitoring through smart meters.
I don't complain too much as I figure the savings take 8 to 10 years for the unit but that can be taken up by annual maintenance unless you know how to do it and when it was installed had the isolation valves installed with the appropriate connectors. Whole process takes about 1-1/2 hours a year and is similar in complexity to draining a regular gas or electric water heater tank which everyone does annually too. Right? That is a major reason those tank heaters go bad, not to mention they forgot to include exit flue gas dampers and so many, many homes with gas heaters have a 4 to 5 inch diameter hole in their roof constantly leaking conditioned air to the outside.
Mr Shepstone, Thomas, I love you! As soon as I read your headline in my email I knew here is a man who understands! A man with a heart who actually cares! I'm in England, yet this perfect description of those callously uncaring, selfish betrayers of the Labour Party over here who are now running our government. Labour used to be the party that cared for the old, disabled and poor. Now the evil man who allowed Jimmy Savile freedom to live a life of child molestation and takes heating allowances away from disabled poor people is our Labour Prime Minister. He, the man on record for stating he prefers the WEF in Davos to his own country's parliament in Westminster may have given us some insight into these nasty spiteful leaders of today. For the trend surely is to grind their heel in the faces of the poor while living it up with their elite cronies.
Don't forget the House of Windsor liked keeping the pedophile about.
Yes indeed. I wondered if they were just stupid, but no, they live one way while expecting people to put up with the pain of poverty while they practise egregiously immoral indulgences. The torture of the innocent young children has to stop. We need to stand up against it.
Thank you! I pray that Two-Tier Kier is gone soon!
FJB hats, shirts and jewelry are enjoying renewed demand.
Stupid is as stupid does! For crying out loud - this goes beyond foolishness.
Tankless water heaters got going as an energy efficiency measure. They are eating their own at this point.
What’s missing from the Biden administration ruling?? The actual carbon content of the generated electrons coming to the residence (or building) isn’t accounted for.
Most coal and natural gas thermal plants that generate electricity are less than 40% efficient. So why is this rule banishing certain gas-fired hot water heaters that are much more efficient thermal plants?
Because electric tankless water heaters don't work, and don't take two showers with a heat pump water heater, they only can make enough hot water for one short cool one.
If that is so, and in most cases it is not, it still means such a heater is an economic and worthwhile solution for an elderly couple or a disabled person who does not require gallons of hot running water at one go.
False. Depends on the size of the heat exchanger and the incoming water temp. Properly sized you can do two and still run a dishwasher easily.
There are two statements, which one are you claiming is false?
The on demand electric system. South America has loads of them at point of use...just have to watch out for getting electrocuted...lol.
Agree about heat pumps.. plus way expensive to install.
Ahhh, you won't get an argument about point of use from me. But they are not very popular in the USA. I was talking about the whole house version that is intended to do the same thing as the whole house gas version. They just don't have enough wattage to meet the job and if they did it would be prohibitive. Even with the gas ones, the US gas distribution companies do not like them because of the gas demand. So some gas utilities won't let you install them.
I have a plain ol tank gas water heater, it's all the builder would put in. BUT I have a 2 psi gas service with a 1 inch main the length of the house. If I want a tankless, I have the gas to run it.
I had the main line go years ago after 45 years in the ground. Had the reroute done in 1-1/4. Never a problem. The issue (as a former realtor) is what subdivisions installed sometimes bare minimum. Then when folks try and get the permit....denied..
Rinnai makes condensing and non-condensing tankless water heaters. I find it hard to believe they would construct a new factory that makes only non-condensing units. Per online search condensing and non-condensing are approximately the same price so why not buy condensing and save money. I have a Rinnai condensing unit hanging off the wall of my garage. Venting is more straight forward because the exhaust gas is cool. I spend less than $10/month for hot water.
Total gas bill with taxes was just over $25 for December.
My primary heat source is a 8' x 24' vertical hot air collector and its well insulated internal thermal mass.