StacheD details, in this 8-minute video, what’s STILL happening with that solar-panel-caused fire at a cold storage warehouse in Los Angeles, even though the fire is theoretically contained:
This is one of the most incredible videos I’ve ever seen. It shows many views of the progress of the horrible cold storage warehouse fire in LA, with a thorough explanation of the difficulty of dealing with it, even after fighting it for a week. Thanks you Tom Shepstone for passing it on, and kudos to StacheD for producing the video.
Moss Landing is getting to be an almost a continuing fire, I think they're on their sixth. Otey Mesa is near San Diego and kept reigniting for around 11 days, last time I looked.
Why can't they admit this stuff doesn't work, quit building/using this stuff and look for plan B? It only too two sinking ships, full of electric cars, to convince the shippers to refuse them as cargo. I'm not sure what the current status is.
If I were a shipper or a tow truck company, I wouldn’t haul EVs.
If I owned a parking garage, I wouldn’t allow EVs in the building. If I were an insurance company, I would have a whole different rate structure for EVs, batteries, wind turbines, and solar farms.
Yet there must still be some shipping companies that are willing to transport EVs and batteries, because they keep getting imported.
The solar panels generate electricity that is stored in lithium-ion batteries.
The fire may not have been started by the batteries, but once those storage batteries were involved, the challenge was how to distinguish that chemical fire.
The “chemical reaction” fire in those batteries can only be cooled but not extinguished by water.
There is no mention of storage batteries in the video. The Hyster lift trucks, which had Li-ion batteries, were safely removed after the fire started on the roof.
With repeat fires at this facility it makes you wonder about the installation - proper or not, inspected or not? And the power shutoff not functioning properly? Will insurance companies simply increase rates or refuse coverage? When rooftop solar is installed do we need different construction techniques and standards? And for retrofit buildings what standards do we need? Safety should be considered in the design and if the solar installation is too expensive due to design considerations then don’t do it!!
They are very heavy and need consideration in the design. There used to be a type that was similar to "Ice and Water Shield" in that the panels were on thin film and were used on glavalume metal panels. I can't imagine a company spending the money for a galvalume roof. The company that made the panels was Uni-solar, out of Michigan (I believe). When the Obama administration started bringing g in super cheap Chinese panels and funded Solyndra, they closed their AMERICAN company. They made a great product. 🙁
The issue in LA is that many building have flat roofs and the use a membrane sealant as the roof rather than regular metal or shingles. It appears that this roof had a corrugated type roof. Those panels were probably on racking (just shorter than what is seen in fields). It's lighter but still adds considerable weight.
Interesting that they had to find and disconnect the inverters. 😳
The main grid power shutoff had no effect on the power coming from the solar panels during daylight. The video mentions inverter disconnects, but the panels would still have electric potential and still be dangerous. It sounds like some of the firemen were surprised that there was still voltage after the disconnects, but that;s the very nature of photovoltaics.
Thank you for posting. Back in 2013 I was involved in rooftop solar for a college. When the Dietz and Watson warehouse fire occurred, we all became alarmed about our project. So far no problems but here is the NJ experience in 2013. This has been a concern for awhile: https://whyy.org/articles/6-alarm-fire-rips-through-dietz-a-watson-warehouse/
I only know what the news story covered on the Dietz & Watson warehouse. But it inspired us to install the transformers, inverters and most switchgear at the ground pad. Only wires to the roof panels.
I never saw an official report, but the initial believe of the cause was electrical associated with the solar inverters. That is speculation but what else can cause a warehouse roof to combust when lightening is not present?
That's what I've been wondering, and I'm not clear even on how an inverter can cause a fire. Were they microinverters, or the larger type, associated with batteries?
Any more green and we’re all going to die.
This is one of the most incredible videos I’ve ever seen. It shows many views of the progress of the horrible cold storage warehouse fire in LA, with a thorough explanation of the difficulty of dealing with it, even after fighting it for a week. Thanks you Tom Shepstone for passing it on, and kudos to StacheD for producing the video.
Read about the Otey Mesa fire outside of San Diego and Moss Landing fires both in CA.
I'm familiar with the Moss Landing battery recycling factory fire, but will look up the Otey Mesa fire...
Moss Landing is getting to be an almost a continuing fire, I think they're on their sixth. Otey Mesa is near San Diego and kept reigniting for around 11 days, last time I looked.
Why can't they admit this stuff doesn't work, quit building/using this stuff and look for plan B? It only too two sinking ships, full of electric cars, to convince the shippers to refuse them as cargo. I'm not sure what the current status is.
If I were a shipper or a tow truck company, I wouldn’t haul EVs.
If I owned a parking garage, I wouldn’t allow EVs in the building. If I were an insurance company, I would have a whole different rate structure for EVs, batteries, wind turbines, and solar farms.
Yet there must still be some shipping companies that are willing to transport EVs and batteries, because they keep getting imported.
The solar panels generate electricity that is stored in lithium-ion batteries.
The fire may not have been started by the batteries, but once those storage batteries were involved, the challenge was how to distinguish that chemical fire.
The “chemical reaction” fire in those batteries can only be cooled but not extinguished by water.
Ed Davidson provides a clear explanation: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/ed-davidson-744b016_there-ya-have-it-water-does-not-extinguish-activity-7394165904965521408-ZuYd/
If the building was grid tied, no batteries needed. As Al Christie said none were mentioned. That would also be another whole fire issue.
There is no mention of storage batteries in the video. The Hyster lift trucks, which had Li-ion batteries, were safely removed after the fire started on the roof.
With repeat fires at this facility it makes you wonder about the installation - proper or not, inspected or not? And the power shutoff not functioning properly? Will insurance companies simply increase rates or refuse coverage? When rooftop solar is installed do we need different construction techniques and standards? And for retrofit buildings what standards do we need? Safety should be considered in the design and if the solar installation is too expensive due to design considerations then don’t do it!!
They are very heavy and need consideration in the design. There used to be a type that was similar to "Ice and Water Shield" in that the panels were on thin film and were used on glavalume metal panels. I can't imagine a company spending the money for a galvalume roof. The company that made the panels was Uni-solar, out of Michigan (I believe). When the Obama administration started bringing g in super cheap Chinese panels and funded Solyndra, they closed their AMERICAN company. They made a great product. 🙁
The issue in LA is that many building have flat roofs and the use a membrane sealant as the roof rather than regular metal or shingles. It appears that this roof had a corrugated type roof. Those panels were probably on racking (just shorter than what is seen in fields). It's lighter but still adds considerable weight.
Interesting that they had to find and disconnect the inverters. 😳
The main grid power shutoff had no effect on the power coming from the solar panels during daylight. The video mentions inverter disconnects, but the panels would still have electric potential and still be dangerous. It sounds like some of the firemen were surprised that there was still voltage after the disconnects, but that;s the very nature of photovoltaics.
Thank you for posting. Back in 2013 I was involved in rooftop solar for a college. When the Dietz and Watson warehouse fire occurred, we all became alarmed about our project. So far no problems but here is the NJ experience in 2013. This has been a concern for awhile: https://whyy.org/articles/6-alarm-fire-rips-through-dietz-a-watson-warehouse/
I only know what the news story covered on the Dietz & Watson warehouse. But it inspired us to install the transformers, inverters and most switchgear at the ground pad. Only wires to the roof panels.
Thanks for the link. Was the cause of the fire ever determined?
I never saw an official report, but the initial believe of the cause was electrical associated with the solar inverters. That is speculation but what else can cause a warehouse roof to combust when lightening is not present?
That's what I've been wondering, and I'm not clear even on how an inverter can cause a fire. Were they microinverters, or the larger type, associated with batteries?